Post by Admin on Feb 19, 2016 22:45:23 GMT
Heylo all! This has become a question that has popped up from many new and old people coming into the dream briefly over time and have asked this question when regarding the Spinosaurus and it's new findings.
This put the dream in debate on weither or not we accepted the new findings on the Spinosaurus or not. In further effort to keep from repeating myself as well as others to do the same, months and months prior to this time we all sat down and had a good long talk about the new Spinosaurus.
The NEW Spinosaurus
In 2014; set of new findings on the Spinosaurus was released to the public.
They painted the Spinosaurus Egypiticus as a short, knuckle walking fully aquadic animal. Due to finding a set of leg bones that where shorter than what they originally thought. Giving release to the theory above on how it looked and possibly lived.
The scientific community balked at the new findings, then accepted them. Until a few other known Paleo scientists didn't accept it and pointed out their theories. Which has since caused a divide among scientists.
Here are some of the few:
markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-spinosaurus-hindlimb-controversy.html - Mark Witton touches on to the published numbers of the new bones found.
www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/theres-something-fishy-about-spinosaurus9112014 - Scott Hartmon a well known skeleton constructionist for giving us correct info on dinosaur size. placement and bones finds something fishy with the numbers published in the papers.
www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/there-may-be-more-fishiness-in-spinosaurus9132014 More of Scott's debate on the matter.
qilong.wordpress.com/2014/09/12/the-outlaw-spino-saurus/ Jaime Headden (a.k.a. Qilong) thoughts on the animal
and there are more, some who accept it, and some do not.
HOWEVER
Despite the uproar amongst the Scientific community and the published papers of the smaller leg bone size. It lead to many of us talking amongst ourselves as dream goers and dinosaur-nerds. Each of us gave our opinions and our insights into the matter.
1. Pronated arms;
We all know theorpods don't have pronated arms, they can't turn them this way and that way. There has been no evidence of such in dinosaurs, and no trackways to prove that they could.
Thus, a Spinosaurus walking with its knuckles on the ground (like a gorilla); would have shown signs of stress in the hands, claws, fingers and arms. The animal is so top heavy that it could have broken its own hands/arms. Even with living a fully aquadic lifestyle.
Result?: This is not supported in dream. We know that they cannot pronate their arms, no theropod can! And with that in mind it also is a very top heavy creature and would need to support 6 - 9 tons of weight on its little arms and short legs. Many of us do not see how it could not have broken its hands and arms while doing this, others think it is too heavy. An agreement was made that this wasn't accepted among the group.
2. Aquatic lifestyle;
While it's theorized that Spinosaurus was aquadic, or at least semi-aquatic, we do know that it ate fish, and has been known to eat other things that had died along the banks of any kind of water source, from Iquanadons to more. It has even been known to catch and eat Pteranodons.
Result: Some believe aquadic, some semi-aquatic; its all to the preference to the player.
3. Balancing Act
Let's say Spinosaurus is not a knuckle-walker and is instead carrying its arms like most theropods do, and with the newly published length of the legs. This leaves the animal being exteremely top heavy, and possibly very unbalanced. Even if it were to live in water completely; an animal like this would be virtually useless on land.
Result: With the knuckle walking theory not accepted in Arazoa; the short legs come into question and are thus, also marked off. the animal is already top heavy and would be further unbalanced. That's about 6-9 tons it needs to support.
4. Family Relations
While they think Spinosaurus may have been a fully aquadic, short legged, knuckle-walking beast to roam the rivers. Many of us took into account its relatives, and any evidence that if they do may walk the same.
Surprise!
None of them do! There's been no evidence found of tracks that might lead to belief in knuckle-walking, nor do any of the Spinosauraide family show evidence of walking like that. From Irriator to Suchomimus.
Why then would there be such a drastic change from all of them having the right hands for a theropod to suddenly pronated hands on Spinosaurus and knuckle-walking?
Result: For some of us; myself included; the evidence didn't match up their theory. More evidence and proof is needed. In short, they need their missing link.
IN CONCLUSION
After much discussion and debate on the Spinosaurus by the dream's patrons as a whole. We concluded that The 2014 version of Spinosaurus Egypticus or its holotypes are not acceptable. There are too many questions and not enough answers to back up the theories that the published papers established.
Further evidence is needed in order to support the 2014 Spinosaurus; while we know some games have come out with their own versions of Spinosaurus; such as ARK Survival, and Mesozoica, and Saurian possibly; Primal Carnage has yet to update theirs if they ever decide to.
For all that is known it could have been a juvenile that they found alongside bones of an adult. Possibly washed away though some kind of severe storm or flood. Though many debated for this to be unlikely, the fact of the matter is that we just don't know. More bones are needed to be found of this unusual animal to further paint a more accurate view of it and it's lifestyle.
Some even supported theories of a fully quad Spinosaurus (ARK Survival Spinosaurus), but for that we need to find arm bones, and again their arms cannot pronate like most theropod arms. There is no way that they could walk on all fours. While it would balance them out better, we just don't have the evidence to support it.
For now the 2014 Spinosaurus is only in theory. There have been countless revisions of the animal through history, as it happens with most dinosaurs...
When more evidence of the creature is found; and its theories changed and or further explained we may reverse our decision...until then:
the 2014 Reconstruction of Spinosaurus is NOT accepted in Arazoa.
This put the dream in debate on weither or not we accepted the new findings on the Spinosaurus or not. In further effort to keep from repeating myself as well as others to do the same, months and months prior to this time we all sat down and had a good long talk about the new Spinosaurus.
The NEW Spinosaurus
In 2014; set of new findings on the Spinosaurus was released to the public.
They painted the Spinosaurus Egypiticus as a short, knuckle walking fully aquadic animal. Due to finding a set of leg bones that where shorter than what they originally thought. Giving release to the theory above on how it looked and possibly lived.
The scientific community balked at the new findings, then accepted them. Until a few other known Paleo scientists didn't accept it and pointed out their theories. Which has since caused a divide among scientists.
Here are some of the few:
markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-spinosaurus-hindlimb-controversy.html - Mark Witton touches on to the published numbers of the new bones found.
www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/theres-something-fishy-about-spinosaurus9112014 - Scott Hartmon a well known skeleton constructionist for giving us correct info on dinosaur size. placement and bones finds something fishy with the numbers published in the papers.
www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/there-may-be-more-fishiness-in-spinosaurus9132014 More of Scott's debate on the matter.
qilong.wordpress.com/2014/09/12/the-outlaw-spino-saurus/ Jaime Headden (a.k.a. Qilong) thoughts on the animal
and there are more, some who accept it, and some do not.
HOWEVER
Despite the uproar amongst the Scientific community and the published papers of the smaller leg bone size. It lead to many of us talking amongst ourselves as dream goers and dinosaur-nerds. Each of us gave our opinions and our insights into the matter.
1. Pronated arms;
We all know theorpods don't have pronated arms, they can't turn them this way and that way. There has been no evidence of such in dinosaurs, and no trackways to prove that they could.
Thus, a Spinosaurus walking with its knuckles on the ground (like a gorilla); would have shown signs of stress in the hands, claws, fingers and arms. The animal is so top heavy that it could have broken its own hands/arms. Even with living a fully aquadic lifestyle.
Result?: This is not supported in dream. We know that they cannot pronate their arms, no theropod can! And with that in mind it also is a very top heavy creature and would need to support 6 - 9 tons of weight on its little arms and short legs. Many of us do not see how it could not have broken its hands and arms while doing this, others think it is too heavy. An agreement was made that this wasn't accepted among the group.
2. Aquatic lifestyle;
While it's theorized that Spinosaurus was aquadic, or at least semi-aquatic, we do know that it ate fish, and has been known to eat other things that had died along the banks of any kind of water source, from Iquanadons to more. It has even been known to catch and eat Pteranodons.
Result: Some believe aquadic, some semi-aquatic; its all to the preference to the player.
3. Balancing Act
Let's say Spinosaurus is not a knuckle-walker and is instead carrying its arms like most theropods do, and with the newly published length of the legs. This leaves the animal being exteremely top heavy, and possibly very unbalanced. Even if it were to live in water completely; an animal like this would be virtually useless on land.
Result: With the knuckle walking theory not accepted in Arazoa; the short legs come into question and are thus, also marked off. the animal is already top heavy and would be further unbalanced. That's about 6-9 tons it needs to support.
4. Family Relations
While they think Spinosaurus may have been a fully aquadic, short legged, knuckle-walking beast to roam the rivers. Many of us took into account its relatives, and any evidence that if they do may walk the same.
Surprise!
None of them do! There's been no evidence found of tracks that might lead to belief in knuckle-walking, nor do any of the Spinosauraide family show evidence of walking like that. From Irriator to Suchomimus.
Why then would there be such a drastic change from all of them having the right hands for a theropod to suddenly pronated hands on Spinosaurus and knuckle-walking?
Result: For some of us; myself included; the evidence didn't match up their theory. More evidence and proof is needed. In short, they need their missing link.
IN CONCLUSION
After much discussion and debate on the Spinosaurus by the dream's patrons as a whole. We concluded that The 2014 version of Spinosaurus Egypticus or its holotypes are not acceptable. There are too many questions and not enough answers to back up the theories that the published papers established.
Further evidence is needed in order to support the 2014 Spinosaurus; while we know some games have come out with their own versions of Spinosaurus; such as ARK Survival, and Mesozoica, and Saurian possibly; Primal Carnage has yet to update theirs if they ever decide to.
For all that is known it could have been a juvenile that they found alongside bones of an adult. Possibly washed away though some kind of severe storm or flood. Though many debated for this to be unlikely, the fact of the matter is that we just don't know. More bones are needed to be found of this unusual animal to further paint a more accurate view of it and it's lifestyle.
Some even supported theories of a fully quad Spinosaurus (ARK Survival Spinosaurus), but for that we need to find arm bones, and again their arms cannot pronate like most theropod arms. There is no way that they could walk on all fours. While it would balance them out better, we just don't have the evidence to support it.
For now the 2014 Spinosaurus is only in theory. There have been countless revisions of the animal through history, as it happens with most dinosaurs...
When more evidence of the creature is found; and its theories changed and or further explained we may reverse our decision...until then:
the 2014 Reconstruction of Spinosaurus is NOT accepted in Arazoa.
